Prime Video’s thrilling, dark mystery Wilderness is set to be your newest TV addiction. We speak to creator Marnie Dickens and director So Yong Kim about the show and how they got Taylor Swift on their opening credits.
Is there anything better than a really good, addictive, binge-worthy TV show? One that really pulls you in and takes you on a rollercoaster ride of emotions. Succession has seemingly left a bit of a vacuum for such a pleasure, but we’re pretty sure Wilderness will fill that hole in your life.
Jenna Coleman plays Liv, a woman who follows her new husband Will (a menacing Oliver Jackson-Cohen) to America. Her world shatters when she learns of Will’s affair with a co-worker and she begins planning her revenge.
Credit: Prime Video
To say anything more of Wilderness would be to rob it of its twisty narrative unfolding, but we did get writer and creator Marnie Dickinson and series director So Yong Kim to spill the beans on making the show and, crucially, how they managed to get such a perfect Taylor Swift song for their opening credits.
When did you first hear about the novel?
Marnie Dickens: I first heard about the novel from our fellow executive producer, Elizabeth Kilgarriff (Liz). We’ve worked together before on Thirteen and Gold Digger, and she literally brought down the physical hardcopy. Actually, she presented it from her very nice bag and said, ‘You’ve got to read this. It’s really great. Don’t ask me any questions,’ because I tend to ask a few too many questions. I read it in one go, which is a testament [to the] twisty, turn-y writing and fantastic cliffhangers.
What were some of the crucial things that you got hooked on, what were you drawn to?
Marnie Dickens: In the book, I was drawn to the premise of this young British couple, seemingly who’ve got it all, and then everything collapses and sours. That felt really juicy to me as a dramatist, and then [you have] this incredible central female protagonist with Liv. But I think the thing that really made me think it was possible to do, was that you had this relationship drama, but it was instantly pushed out of the domestic sphere. So you just had naturally big stakes. And then you had these eye-popping locations that they travelled through. So it felt like a real embarrassment of riches at the beginning.
Credit: Prime Video
And So, how did you come aboard?
So Yong Kim: I came through my agent. And I [read] the pilot, and I think the second episode, and then I met Marnie, and Liz and I asked for the rest of this season, I believe. And then when I got on the Zoom with Marnie and Liz, I really loved the dynamic between the two of you guys, you guys were so amazing. When I read the first episode of this show, I just had this instant connection to the writing, but also to the characters. It felt like a human story, as well as a feminist point of view. And it was the perfect combination with a thrilling aspect.
Marnie Dickens: And we [went] to So, we sent it to her agent because we both watched Lovesong, this amazing film she did with Riley Keough. And it felt like such a POV piece of storytelling, which is what we wanted for Liv, like it has to feel like her journey.
So: And then I convinced them to let me direct all the episodes!
I’m not familiar with the novel. Was there quite a clear structure for it? How did you structure the show? Because a TV show has to have one big arc, but you also have to have the episodic arcs.
Marnie Dickens: There was a lot of invention from the book. There’s some great twists and turns in the book but lots of them work much better on the page than they could on screen. I personally love shows with cliffhangers. I come from a Hollyoaks soap background and everyone talks about guilty pleasures. Why must we have guilt with our pleasures? Let’s just have pleasures! And I’ve been taught the importance of hooking the audience in for the next episode. Even with a binge, it’s still the same. If your cliffhangers work then you’re excited that the next one’s appearing in front of you.
And also, I’ve always liked pre-title hooks as well. The little bit of footage you get before the brilliant title sequence plays with Taylor Swift. You just don’t want too many moments where the audience can let their minds wander off. So then it becomes just about working really, really hard with big pieces of white paper with Liz and our great script editor Katie (Stevens), and just breaking down the story. Of course, it’s Liv’s journey but you need to also understand and empathise with Will, see why he’s doing what he’s doing. And then make sure other characters are well serviced, particularly one of my favourite characters, Liv’s mom, played by the great Claire Rushbrook.
Credit: Prime Video
Especially in the earlier episodes, when we’re still getting to know Liv and Will and all the supporting characters, every line felt like there was so much meaning and so much information being given to you as a viewer. Did you do a lot of rehearsals? Is that the key to getting your audience hooked very early on?
So Yong Kim: I think the key is really Jenna Coleman and Oliver Jackson-Cohen. I think for me, working with great talent, like they are, it’s the key. Casting is number one, it’s like 90% of my job done. The 10% is just being there as a support person.
Jenna and Oliver did so much of that lifting when they showed up in Vancouver. Before we started shooting, we just spent some time getting to know each other because they didn’t know me. They knew each other from London, but that was my first time meeting them in person. So we just spend time drinking coffee, going for walks, that’s like my rehearsal process. And Marnie’s too, actually. We did some rehearsals, but very minimal, because they already had done so much work before they showed up.
Jenna Coleman is phenomenal. She brilliantly taps into that universal, female rage and fury. When you were casting her, what convinced you that she had what it takes to portray such a complex character?
Marnie Dickens: I’ve watched and loved many of her performances. I think The Cry for me was one of the most staggering performances. It was a grueling watch, but what’s so interesting is, she played so many layers, and it reminded me a lot of Jodie Comer actually who obviously was cast in Thirteen. And it was exactly the same thing. Liv, and that character (Ivy Moxam), have to play so many different layers at all times. There’s the reality, what they know, he knows, at least four different things that you’re playing. And Jenna can do that, with literally an eyebrow raise. She just felt like she would get the nuance of the performance throughout. And she did. I really can’t say enough good things about Jenna.
So Yong Kim: When we were shooting, there were some days when she had to cover like four or five episodes’ scenes within the day, but she was prepared to go through the ups and downs of all those moments. And within a scene, she’ll know how to do nuance, adjust minute, little tweaks. It was masterful.
And Oliver as well!
Marnie Dickens: He’s got a really tough role, in the sense that you never want him to be just this two-dimensional villain, that we’re all just going ‘Kill him!’ He’s so vulnerable and warm. I personally think you totally understand why he can’t just give up on this marriage. And that is real testament to him, he’s a very subtle, delicate performer, and also a lovely human.
So Yong Kim: Also, I have to say, Eric (Balfour), they both are so nuanced that you really have empathy for them and you feel for them, even though with Oliver’s character, you have much more ups and downs.
Marnie Dickens: I am going to loop Ashley in here too, only because it’s the main four of them. On paper, those are the characters, the other woman and the cheating husband, but all of that cast give such nuanced performances. And I think in that scene between her and Jenna in the bedroom, you really get a sense that this woman has had to put up so many masks because of the patriarchy. What we wanted to do is have a show where, of course people behave monstrously, but that we never lose our connection to them as viewers.
Director So Yong Kim on set. Credit: Prime Video
I’ve seen all the episodes and that last episode… Did you want to complicate our idea of good and evil?
Marnie Dickens: Yes, definitely. Because I don’t think anyone is good or evil. And actually, Eric puts it really well, when he talks about it. Not many people are born bad. You behave in a certain way because you feel the judgement of society, you hide your true self, you create lies. I think Will behaves despicably in this series. Of course, Liv also does, but I would argue that she’s more connected to her bad behaviour, and feels the weight of it more, whereas he has spent his whole life trying to outrun it. If people get to the end, and they feel kind of confused about how they feel about both characters, I’d say that’s a success. Nothing is black and white in the world.
So Yong Kim: I think that kind of behaviour, like good and bad behaviour is all within us. It’s just a matter of which part of that you want to enhance and accentuate as you’re in yourself, it’s part of our DNA.
Taylor Swift’s ‘Look What You Made Me Do’ on the opening credits is brilliant on so many levels. How did you pull that off?
Marnie Dickens: I do write commercial tracks into my scripts, because it’s very important to me. What we listen to in our AirPods, or earphones, whatever, is a reflection of our private selves. It’s a really good way of accessing what Liv’s trying to express. Obviously, don’t need too much of that with Jenna’s amazing performance. I had already written that song into Episode Two. Prime Video were so supportive, and they said we’re prepared to back you guys to get a big female artist to do the title track. Have a brainstorm about who you like, and I was just like, Taylor Swift. She hasn’t done this re-record yet and it’s literally lyrically perfect. We had brilliant music supervisors, Pete (Saville) and Zoe (Ellen Bryant) who set off on the business-y front. And I wrote, I suppose, a love letter [to Taylor], expressing why she was so right. And then we were so fortunate that she said yes. It does still feel like a bit of a pinch me moment.
I watched it every single time because the animation is also absolutely beautiful!
Marnie Dickens: The creators for that, they just fulfilled what we wanted creatively, and then went another mile. They’re just so fantastic, those titles. I’m really proud of them.
Wilderness launches globally on Prime Video on 15th September.
